Justifying
the Trinity Doctrine - Part 2 Nicene.
The Church had a motive in the 4th Century for claiming Jesus is God. It wanted to claim it had the authority to speak and act for God. The claim went like this - Jesus said of Peter - "on this rock I build my church". Peter, it was claimed, was the first Pope of the organisation which now called itself the Church, so it claimed it was authorised by Jesus and by claiming Jesus is God that it was authorised by God - that it had God's authority. Jesus taught that God loves us and wants us to love him. Post Nicene 325AD, the Church claimed that God did not want to deal with ordinary people like me himself so had authorised the Church to speak and act for him. Jesus taught that if you truely repent then provided you forgive others God will forgive your sin. The Church said no! Forgiving sins is its job. It claimed its clergy had divine powers, that God had given them the power to forgive sin and that it was the Church which decides who went to heaven and who didn't. On the strength of this the Church became all powerful and ruthlessly maintained its grip on power by a monopoly of education and by persecuting, torturing and killing anyone who challenged it.
One might note that in Peter's time a hierarchical organisation did not exist for him to be Pope of. William Tyndale was executed by the Church for pointing out that the Greek word ἐκκλησία or Ecclesia which is what is translated into the word “Church” more nearly means “congregation or community” which is what the “Churches” St Paul wrote to were and of course the protestant Reformation decide only God could forgive sins and decide who went to heaven.
Problem 5 is that the Doctrine doesn't actually make sense. What they attempted to do at Nicene was to reconcile two irreconcilable ideas. That Jesus was God and that there is only one God as made clear in the Old Testament. To see the problem imagine there is someone who has never been to Church. He is showing an interest in coming to church but if he does he will be expected to stand and declare "I believe .......[the Nicene creed]". How would you explain it to that potential new recruit?
Jesus is
God, he is also the divine son of God.
God and his son are two-of-a-kind so that is two Gods isn't it?
No there is only One God. There are three persons, Father Son and Holy Spirit but one God.
So Jesus isn't God he is a "person" a third of a God then?
No! No! he is God the Son, Son of God the father which together with God the Holy Spirit are described as "the Trinity".
But God the Son, God the father and God the Holy Spirit is three Gods!!
No it is a mystery, you aren't expected to understand it, just accept it. It is beyond human understanding.
How can it be beyond human understanding, it was thought up by a committee of men - I Googled it?
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Jesus was "begotten not made"** Jesus wasn't created by God he came into existence by some other means.
Like being born of Mary?
No he existed before he was born.
Eh ????
He and God the Father are co-eternal they have existed since the beginning of time.
How can they be father and son if the son is the same age as the father and the father played no part in bringing the Son into existence? Did Jesus claim to be God?
Well did he???
God and his son are two-of-a-kind so that is two Gods isn't it?
No there is only One God. There are three persons, Father Son and Holy Spirit but one God.
So Jesus isn't God he is a "person" a third of a God then?
No! No! he is God the Son, Son of God the father which together with God the Holy Spirit are described as "the Trinity".
But God the Son, God the father and God the Holy Spirit is three Gods!!
No it is a mystery, you aren't expected to understand it, just accept it. It is beyond human understanding.
How can it be beyond human understanding, it was thought up by a committee of men - I Googled it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus was "begotten not made"** Jesus wasn't created by God he came into existence by some other means.
Like being born of Mary?
No he existed before he was born.
Eh ????
He and God the Father are co-eternal they have existed since the beginning of time.
How can they be father and son if the son is the same age as the father and the father played no part in bringing the Son into existence? Did Jesus claim to be God?
Well did he???
Note that "begotten not made" came about because some suggested that God created Jesus so Jesus must be junior to God and that is why he said "the father is greater than I" but that was rejected and it was decided God did not create Jesus - it seems the Church wanted to claim its authority from God not from the junior partner of "God and Son".
If that isn't complicated enough the Church requires that Jesus was 100% God when he supposedly gave authority to the Church, and 100% a man when he resisted temptation and when he suffered on the cross providing a perfect model for mankind.
What we have therefore is a Doctrine which is 1st on the list of Articles of the Church Of England, which is presented as a summery of the faith of the Church and is considered the No 1 must-believe doctrine yet it is not something taught by Jesus.
The Church in my youth said "it is a mystery, something you are not expected to understand, you just have to accept" but we were in awe of the Church and the people the Church needs to attract aren't - why should they be? You may not agree with me but surely you must accept that it is very difficult to justify. To support the Church's present stance you not only have to believe in the doctrine, you have to believe it is important. So important that the Church is justified in making it a condition of acceptance which risks alienating someone who might otherwise have found God and become a follower of Jesus.
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